72. What's the Difference Between Avatar and Jiva? | Eternal Buddha – BG, CH4, V3-5

Summary:

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, Verse 3: Krishna teaches this imperishable yoga to Arjuna because Arjuna qualifies as his devotee and friend, having recognized the limitations of worldly accomplishments and admitted his inability to create a completely satisfactory life. A qualified student approaches the teacher with humility, provisionally suspending doubts and fault-finding (anasūyā) in the guru, focusing on the knowledge rather than guru's defects. Though Arjuna was the best at everything, these qualities hadn't filled the void within him, leading him to surrender his buddhi to Krishna.

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, Verse 4: Arjuna demonstrates the quality of a good student by not remaining silent when the guru says something seemingly contradictory. He confronts Krishna about how Krishna could have taught Vivasvān who was born eons before Krishna's birth, mirroring the mind of a discerning spiritual seeker who questions claims with logical holes. Krishna speaks not as “Mr. Krishna” – the person Arjuna knew – but as Īśvara, the eternal principle who initiated this knowledge.

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, Verse 5: Krishna explains the difference between Īśvara, Avatāra, and Jīva. As jīva, you possess limited knowledge (alpa-jñānam, alpa-śakti) due to having a limited antaḥ-karaṇa gained by your past actions. But in reality the jīva is eternally enlightened (nitya-buddha), however ignorance (āvaraṇa) makes you confuse the Self with the antaḥ-karaṇa. Īśvara is conscious intelligence from which every form emerges, is sustained, and into which forms dissolve. Jīva takes self as one of many, engaging in actions producing seen results (dṛṣṭa-phala) and unseen results (adṛṣṭa-phala), necessitating future births. Avatāra arises when knowledge-power gives rise to a sentient being not because of ignorance or adṛṣṭa-phala, but for a purpose.


Revision of BG, CH4, V1-2

Krishna says, “This isn’t the first time I’ve given this teaching” – because it represents an oral tradition passed down through generations. Initially, students had to memorize all verses before understanding their meaning. In oral tradition, there’s possibility of deviation when people add their own coloring to the original teaching.

When tradition gets colored improperly, distortions arise – such as Helena Petrovna Blavatsky’s Theosophy, which mixed Vedas with Kabbalah, Christianity, Buddhism, and other systems.

Although teacher can use modern examples to illustrate the principles, but cannot deviate from the paramparā. For example, guru can incorporate atoms and quarks into the satya-mithyā model to relate to modern thinking. 

NEXT VERSE: Reason why Krishna is sharing this same knowledge to Arjuna…

Chapter 4, Verse 3:
Reason Krishna is Sharing Imperishable Yoga to Arjuna

सः एव अयम् मया ते अद्य योगः प्रोक्तः पुरातनः ।
भक्तः असि मे सखा च इति रहस्यम् हि एतत् उत्तमम् ॥ ४-३॥
saḥ eva ayam mayā te adya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ ।
bhaktaḥ asi me sakhā ca iti rahasyam hi etat uttamam ॥ 4-3॥

Today, that same ancient yoga has been told to you by Me because you are My devotee and My friend. This is indeed a profound secret.

Kṛṣṇa says he is bringing back the pure teaching because Arjuna qualifies as “my devotee and friend.”  Also because Arjuna has admitted despite all his resources and knowledge, he wasn't able to give himself a completely satisfactory life – and is desperate for a solution.

So a qualified student like Arjuna, recognizes limitations of worldly accomplishments, heaven, etc – and with humility approaches the teacher – provisionally suspending doubts and fault-finding (anasūyā) in the guru.

Fault finding is like refusing to listen to a discourse from a loudspeaker, not because the knowledge is mediocre, but the loudspeaker is scratched. Similarly, a qualified student focuses on the knowledge, able to look past guru’s defects in speaking manner, etc.

Additionally, Arjuna was the best at everything – dharmic, accomplished, a good son to his mother – but in spite of all these qualities, they hadn’t filled the void within him. This recognition leads Arjuna to say to Kṛṣṇa, “I give my buddhi to you.”

Kṛṣṇa’s use of the word “friend” shows that Arjuna feels comfortable and can be himself, sharing his views without fear. The guru-śiṣya relationship isn't always transactional – there is some attachment and love for the teacher, and it can go both ways.

NEXT VERSE: Arjuna demonstrates quality of a good student, to not remain silent when guru says something seemingly contradictory…

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, Verse 4:
Arjuna points out Krishna's contradiction

अर्जुनः उवाच ।
अपरम् भवतः जन्म परम् जन्म विवस्वतः ।
कथम् एतत् विजानीयाम् त्वम् आदौ प्रोक्तवान् इति ॥ ४-४॥
arjunaḥ uvāca ।
aparam bhavataḥ janma param janma vivasvataḥ ।
katham etat vijānīyām tvam ādau proktavān iti ॥ 4-4॥

Arjuna said: Your birth was not so long ago; (whereas) Vivasvān’s birth was long time ago. How am I to know that you told this (to Vivasvān) in the beginning?

Arjuna confronts Kṛṣṇa about a contradictory statement, which mirrors the mind of a discerning spiritual seeker who questions any claim that seems to have logical holes.

How could have Krishna taught a being (Vivasvān from V1-2) who was born eons before Krishna's birth?

Reason is Krishna speaks not as “Mr. Kṛṣṇa” – the person Arjuna knew – but as Īśvara, the eternal principle who initiated this knowledge.

NEXT VERSE: Kṛṣṇa answers properly…

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 4, Verse 5:
Difference between Ishvara, Avatara and Jiva

श्री भगवान् उवाच ।
बहूनि मे व्यतीतानि जन्मानि तव च अर्जुन ।
तानि अहम् वेद सर्वाणि न त्वम् वेत्थ परन्तप ॥ ४-५॥
śrī bhagavān uvāca ।
bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni tava ca arjuna ।
tāni aham veda sarvāṇi na tvam vettha parantapa ॥ 4-5॥

Śrī Bhagavān said: Many births have passed for Me and for you too, Arjuna! I know them all (whereas) you, (Arjuna) the scorcher of foes! do not know.

“…whereas you do not know.”

Consider fundamental questions you cannot answer: Where were you before this birth? Why did you receive the specific male or female body with the particular personality you have? Why were you given your unique life experiences? Your inability to remember past shows that as jīva, you possess limited knowledge.

The limitations are due to having a limited antaḥ-karaṇa (mind), and it's capacities are keeping with quality of jiva's past actions. For instance, right now you have a human antaḥ-karaṇa, and not a baboons antaḥ-karaṇa, because your unseen karma-phala has earned you such; even if you have no recollection of past lives.

But whether having baboon's or human's mind, it is alpa-jnanam, alpa-shakti (limited knowledge-power). Thereby jīva lives with countless unknowns, which creates a perpetual state of uncertainty, anxiety, insecurity and obsession with control.

But in reality, the jiva enjoys the same essential nature as Kṛṣṇa, but it’s covered by āvaraṇa (ignorance).

Kṛṣṇa explains that you, like him, are also nitya-buddha – eternally enlightened – but you don’t recognize this fact because ignorance makes you confuse the Self with the antaḥ-karaṇa. 

“I know them all”

The word “I” is referring to Krishna as Avatara. To answer what is an Avatara, let's ask, what is difference between Ishvara, Avatara, and Jiva?

    1. Ishvara:
      • Īśvara is not an entity with personal mind, likes, and dislikes. Īśvara represents the conscious intelligence from which every form emerges, is sustained, and into which forms dissolve. What you perceive are the forms, but you don’t recognize the intelligence that makes those forms what they are.
      • How to demonstrate world (jagat) is nothing but conscious-intelligence?
        1. We have performed a satya-mithya analysis in prior lessons to demonstrate everything resolves into Intelligence, meaning everything is Intelligence appearing as form with a name – and Intelligence resolves into Awareness.
        2. All manifest forms depend on each other for existence, meaning you’re living not in an inert world, but in one pervaded by conscious intelligence.
    2. Jiva:
      • As jīva, you take self as one of many, thus engage in actions that produce both seen results (dṛṣṭa-phala) and unseen results (adṛṣṭa-phala). These unseen results necessitate future births for their continued expression.
    3. Avatara:
      • Whereas when Avatara comes, it is knowledge-power that gives rise to a sentient being, not because of ignorance or adrsta-phala, but for a purpose. Krishna is Avatara. 

NEXT VERSE: Krishna explains what an avatara is and it comes by wielding māyā / prakriti…

Course was based on Swami Dayananda (Arsha Vidya) home study course.

Recorded 9 Nov, 2025

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