Success According to Vedanta & Signs of Enlightened Person (Jīvanmukta, B.Gita 2.58) (13)
Success According to Vedanta & Signs of Enlightened Person (Jivanmukta, B.Gita 2.58) (13)

Summary:

Session 13 re-defines “success” from traditional worldly view, to Vedāntic point of view of Objectivity and Dispassion. We then debunk common myths what is an Enlightened person (jīvan-mukta), as answered by Krisna to Arjuna in Bhagavad Gita 2.58. “How does a person of unshakable wisdom sit, speak and walk?“.

TOPICS COVERED:

  1. Reason why wise people give up results of actions performed.

    Even though you have free will to act (karma), once acted, the results are out of your control.

    Because there are too many interconnected unseen/unknown variables in the field, which you play no part in.

    Hence depending on fruits (rewards) of your actions is recipe for disappointment.

    EG: Once trader has put a stake into stock market share (by act of free will), from then on, depending on a win is surrendering all one's happiness into the vast complexity of world's global trading system.

    And even if trader does make a profit, there's risk of unsatisfactory for not making a bigger profit.

    Hence the wise do their duty as service to the Īśvara, because everything IS Īśvara. Hence nothing in creation is yours. Even your wins and loses belong to Īśvara, not you.

    EG: Trader was only able to invest because of Oxygen (given by plants) to breathe, Sun (giving life to plants/animals, providing food for survival), Electricity (to power the world wide web infrastructure), etc.

    The wise know, they are TOTALLY DEPENDENT on Īśvara. Hence perform duty Objectively and Dispassionately.

    While unwise person neglects this truth, tries to control the environment, hence suffers. Like swimming against the Ocean's current. Eventually unwise person's equipment (Body-Mind) wears out, and a new body is given, providing opportunity to fulfill life's highest purpose; mokṣa.

  2. 4 common life variables preventing permanent satisfaction.

    This is relative to #1 above. Why living according to expectations (raga-dveṣa; likes-dislikes) has unpredicable success.

    I expect to catch the bus on other side of the road.

    1. I cross the road, I catch the bus. (EQUAL to expectations)

    2. I cross the road, I miss the bus. (LESS then expected)

    3. I cross the road, friend gives me ride in his car. (MORE then expected)

    4. I cross the road, slip, and end up in hospital. (OPPOSITE to expectations)

    Think about your own life. Aren't these 4 variables the reality in anything pursued. Where is permanent satisfaction in this? Because LESS, OPPOSITE is parallel to EQUAL, MORE. Hence it's unpredictable satisfaction, which motivates one to constantly control their environment. This results in noisy mind, preventing deeper contemplation, preventing mokṣa.

    Hence the wise remain Objective and Dispassionate towards both Pleasures and Adversaries of life, knowing “This too shall pass – Yet I remain“.

  3. Re-defining what does “success” mean from Vedāntic point of view.

    Success is capacity to handle Realities objectively and dispassionately.

    How? By understanding and appreciating the Giver (Īśvara, God). This contributes to RIGHT attitude, which results in RIGHT action.

    Realities, means every moment.

    Objectively, means looking at Realities without personal bias.  (EG of Subjectivity: This social gathering is full of unfriendly guests. Objectivity: I'm not feeling friendly today so it seems others are not friendly to me.)

    Dispassionately, means remaining neutral and Objective towards either joy (desires) and sorrow (fears). This isn't apathy. But mature intellectual reasoning vs. emotional uncontrolled outburst of joy/fear.

  4. All is Given.

    Open your bodies eyes. Do you have to do anything to see a ready-made world of color? No. Sight is immediately given.  You simply enjoy what is given.

    Who is the Giver? Īśvara.

  5. Physical/Mental signs of Enlightened Person (Jīvanmukti) per Bhagavad Gita 2.58.

    One can not identify wise person by their physical appearance, outwards behavior. Only by state of mind.

    But since one can never tell what someone's state of mind is, it's technically impossible to tell who is wise. Because there's no such thing as “Enlightened person”. Everyone is already FREE.

    Hence only a wise person (jīvan-mukti, jñāni) can truly recognize another wise person.

    Ignorant person can not recognize a wise person because all experience is interpreted through Ignorance.

    Just like Arjuna and Krisna were friends since childhood. Yet Arjuna never saw Krisna (jīvan-mukta) until battle of Kurukṣetra.

    This is why you should NOT look for a guru. Because one who is Ignorant will only find a projection of an Enlightened person, according to their likes-dislikes. Which has nothing to do with Reality.

    For this reason we say: When student is ready, then Guru appears. Initially (due to ignorance) the student will not recognize them as “Guru”, but as another ordinary person.

31 July 2018

9 Comments

  1. Sven on May 5, 2019 at 4:04 pm

    Andre… You are Clarity Itself! Thank You.
    One comment: an idea for future Videos… When audience is asking questions often one cannot hear what they say, so it could be a good idea to have a microphone they speak to, or you repeat their questions before answering. Thank you!

    • mm Andre V on May 5, 2019 at 6:27 pm

      No prob. In future videos, the voice of audience conversation/Q is increased every time.

  2. Ben Simpson on November 5, 2019 at 8:33 am

    Man seriously. The “Toxic Illusion of control” how long have i suffered imagining that i can somehow one day take control of the entire fabric of reality. It actually sound ridiculous when you say it that way but its so true. And no one talks about it! everyone is busying thinking that everyone else out there is in control EXCEPT them. And we are all madly trying to SEEM like we are. Great stuff Andre!

  3. Robert Green on August 25, 2020 at 8:05 pm

    Andre.
    You said “ blissed out occurs in the mind, not the self.
    The self just is”.
    There is something important here that I can’t quite get. When we listen to or read the words of the great yogis and masters they all talk about the bliss of being united with God or spirit.
    The true self is described as the eternal witness, pure consciousness that exists in a state beyond qualities.
    It is a reflection of spirit, yet we are told that to be united with spirit is to be in a condition of ever new bliss and joy.
    The Promised Land!
    I don’t understand the apparent contradiction.
    Is it that awareness is conscious of the state of bliss without experiencing it?
    In terms of pay off for the Jiva, I would rather live in amity’s in a state of bliss than live in Satya in a state devoid of qualities, even if this includes being devoid of desire and fear.
    Please help me to see my ignorance here.

    • mm Andre V on August 26, 2020 at 8:23 pm

      Ignore last message. Proper reply:

      You said “ blissed out occurs in the mind, not the self.
      The self just is”.

      ========
      There is something important here that I can’t quite get. When we listen to or read the words of the great yogis and masters they all talk about the bliss of being united with God or spirit.
      ========

      Great yogis/masters for sure. But most are not teachers. Thus many confusing statements in form of one-liners come from them, which end up glorifing the master, rather then helping the student understand WHAT IS MEANT and HOW TO RELATE IT TO REAL LIFE LIVING with children/wife/job/etc.

      For eg: when one hears “bliss of being united with God or spirit”, it forces mind to imagine what liberation is. Like some profound feeling.

      Firstly we must define word “bliss”. It does NOT refer to an emotion/feeling (because that belongs to body-mind).

      1) There is ānanda (bliss) in context of jñāni (liberated while living): He enjoys a level of freedom (owning to firm assimilated knowledge). But there is still pain in body (migrances, backpain, etc). There is still anxiety from family affairs, money issues, etc. So when we bring it down to earth in real life context, where is there place to say: bliss of being united with God or spirit.

      We ALWAYS need to bring things down to earth, into relatable living. Else person lives in an imaginary bubble of how these masters/yogis are.

      In reality when you meet them, they’re ordinary people like the guy sitting next to you in the train. Who then infront of an audience trumpets statements like: bliss of being united with God or spirit!

      Can we see how unrealistic and unneccessary such one-liner statements become when we bring it down to earth?

      2) There is ānanda (bliss) in context of (videha-mukti): Meaning jñāni who has physically died (old age, etc). What happens then is a new subtle body will NEVER again be created, therefore no rebirth into gross body. In this scenario, all that’s left from standpoint of jñāni is ānanda (bliss), which is not limited by the body-mind instrument, as is the case while jñāni is alive.

      Remember, limitless bliss is impossible while jñāni (enlightened person) is alive. Because how can limitless bliss express through a limited body-mind instrument? Impossible.

      ========
      The true self is described as the eternal witness, pure consciousness that exists in a state beyond qualities.
      ========

      Self (ātmā) = Nirguṇa: without qualities/attributes.

      Your statement is correct.

      ========
      It is a reflection of spirit, yet we are told that to be united with spirit is to be in a condition of ever new bliss and joy.
      ========

      See above reply the one-liner confusing statements proponded by the yogis/masters. We’re not saying they are not jñānis (liberated).

      We are only saying that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between:

      a) jñāni, but NOT a qualified teacher. Majority of masters/yogis belong in this category.
      b) jñāni + qualified teacher.

      #a always creates contradictions.

      #b’s job is to resolve the contraditions created by #a’s.

      That’s why Robert’s mind has so many questions.

      ========
      Is it that awareness is conscious of the state of bliss without experiencing it?
      ========

      Awareness and bliss (ānanda) are exactly the same. They are not different.

      For example: Where there is fire, there is heat. Where there is heat, there is fire. Thus Fire and Heat are not-two (advaita).

      Total bliss is limited by body-mind as explained above.

      While person is alive (whether englightened or unenlightened), he will experience mini-blisses throughout the day, in form of: kiss, hug from children, smile from lover, chocolate, etc.

      But all those mini-blisses are OF the TOTAL limitless ānanda.

      ========
      In terms of pay off for the Jiva, I would rather live in amity’s in a state of bliss than live in Satya in a state devoid of qualities, even if this includes being devoid of desire and fear.
      ========

      Again, satyam and bliss are not-two. Just as fire-heat are not two.

      Thus statement is coming from assumption they are somehow seperate.

      It’s impossible to seperate Awareness from bliss. Do you know why? If there is no Awareness, who is there to KNOW about the bliss?

      Hence to say satya (Awareness) and bliss (ānanda) are different, is logically impossible.

      ==========
      Should a person be vegan and celibate to become liberated from attachment to the senses and to practice ahimsa?
      ==========

      Celibacy/vegan/meat-eater makes 0.0% difference to pursuit of liberation. Unless it’s constantly making mind agitated.

      For example, will a food addict sit down and contemplate? Yes. But on what? FOOD!

      In addicts case, we would first say “Take care of your food addiction, then pursue Vedanta, which needs contemplation on satya/mithyā”.

  4. Robert Green on August 25, 2020 at 8:07 pm

    Mitya, not Amity’s.
    spellcheck doesn’t like me. 😊

  5. Robert Green on August 25, 2020 at 10:33 pm

    further comment.
    Should a person be vegan and celibate to become liberated from attachment to the senses and to practice ahimsa?

  6. Robert Green on August 27, 2020 at 8:55 am

    Thank you so much for your detailed answer Andre.
    This is really helpful.
    I think so many questions arise in me because I am thinking from duality and trying to assimilate the thoughts and words of those who , while having achieved themselves, are not operating a complete teaching system.
    I see that now.

    • mm Andre V on August 27, 2020 at 9:07 pm

      Despite thinking in duality, we don’t dismiss any question. Long as contradictions remain in mind, so will seeking. Duty of teacher is to resolve every single contradiction in the mind of student.

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